My Kingdom is Not of This World: An Interview with Prince Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg
By Tracy R. Twyman
Originally written for Paranoia Magazine, Copyright 2004
(Does not necessarily represent author’s current viewpoint.)
Just as the work of Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln introduced the study of the “Grail bloodline” to Anglo-America in the 1980s, so has the work of two individuals redefined the scope of this study in more recent years. But while the better-known Laurence Gardner has received fame, fortune, accolades, and numerous book contracts as a reward for his work, a lesser-known figure has lurked quietly ion the shadows up until the present. As the Sovereign Grand Master of the Imperial and Royal Dragon Court and Order, Prince Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg provided the inspiration, the research, and a hefty portion of the writing for Gardner’s Genesis of the Grail Kings and Realm of the Ring Lords. Yet amazingly, de Vere is not listed as co-author on many editions of Genesis, and receives no credit at all in Ring Lords. Both of these books, credited to Laurence Gardner, are based almost entirely upon the text From Transylvania to Tunbridge Wells, by Nicholas de Vere, recently published by The Book Tree under the title The Dragon Legacy: The Secret History of an Ancient Bloodline.
But there is much in the original de Vere text that is not to be found in the Gardner version, and there is an authenticity to de Vere’s work, derived from the fact that he is the true inheritor and guardian of this tradition — the Dragon tradition, also known as the Grail tradition. De Vere has spent two decades delving into history, mythology, science, religion, and his own family archives to compile what is perhaps the most extensive and insightful text upon this subject ever published. What de Vere has come up with is enough to comprise not just another pop culture craze, but an entirely new theology, with a new philosophy and politics as well. But de Vere is clearly not out to get rich or be popular, as he has already forgone numerous opportunities to obtain both. Writing about an elite genetic strain of humanity that descends from a super-human race, and which possesses abilities inaccessible to those outside of that strain, is not exactly a ticket to universal adulation. To the contrary, de Vere’s assertions regarding the elite status of the Dragon bloodline have branded him completely anathema to the Wiccan and New Age communities who would otherwise be among those most open to his message. Which begs the question: why has Nicholas de Vere spent the last twenty years of his life on this monumental task, and why does he continue to do so?
I have known Nicholas de five years, and despite what some naysayers have claimed, I have found him to be amazingly humble, selfless, anti-materialistic, and at times brutally honest. He is personable, charming, sincere, and not the least bit conceited, despite knowing that his writing has redefined an entire field of research, that he is the head of an elite occult order with origins stretching back to the Knights Templar, and that he holds a potential claim to several important royal titles. This, some have supposed, is the real motivation behind his work. Some believe that de Vere wants to be the King of England or France, an assertion that he flatly denies. Others see in de Vere a candidate for nothing less than the anti-Christ himself, and see in the Dragon Court an international Satanic conspiracy somewhere on a level between the Ordo Templi Orientis and the Bilderberg Group. But while it is true that, when the Great Dragon of Revelation does emerge to take hold of the world, he will undoubtedly be of the Dragon blood, and may even be a member of the Court, Prince Nicholas de Vere is certainly not he. As I am sure he would humbly admit himself, de Vere’s mission is simply to prepare the way for He who is yet to come. Listen, then, dear readers, to the voice crying out in the wilderness.
TT: What is your educational background? What careers have you pursued in the past?
NDV: I was educated to the British equivalent of ‘High School Graduate’ with qualifications in English Law, English Language, Art, Sociology and Business Economics. I have a further Royal Society of Arts qualification in English. I spent two periods at Brighton University and Coleg Ceredigion where I studied English and Printing, and then later Law, Sociology and Politics.
My main careers have been in:
- the Military, where I served most of my time in the Northern Ireland conflict and was decorated with the Campaign Service Medal.
- in Private Security. I was managing director of my own company and provided security for various nationally and internationally known companies such as Virgin.
TT: What is the history of your career in professional non-fiction writing?
NDV: I started writing in earnest in 1985 and was eventually persuaded to publish the thrust of my work on the Internet in 1999.
TT: How long ago did you write The Dragon Legacy?
NDV: About six years ago. The Dragon Legacy was known on the net as From Transylvania to Tunbridge Wells and this was a summary of years of research and reflection. Some of it appeared in Laurence Gardner’s Genesis of the Grail Kings and then after I published it on the web, Lawrence based his third book Realm of the Ring Lords largely on what I had already published.
TT: What were your main sources of information when compiling the book?
NDV: On the so-called Dragon “path” one is imbued hereditarily with Dragon capabilities in varying measures. As one progresses these capabilities wax and wane according to necessity. One of the main capacities is the Derkesthai Process, in which information is “channeled” through the conduit of the Dragon archetype; specifically the racial consciousness of those of the Dragon blood. Through this process one may pick up naturally, all sorts of information relating to varied aspects of the Dragon Tradition in its many and various branches and manifestations. However, this is of no use intellectually and rationally without informed academic confirmation and corroboration.
To this end another Dragon capacity is to be able to obtain after the fact those confirmations required. I anticipated works before I read them, either through meditation or through experience on the Dragon Path. In a not too dissimilar manner Kerkule discovered the “Bezine Ring.”
I would say that the serious academic backbone of The Dragon Legacy in terms of corroboration and confirmation, lies in the work of Dr. David Barker; George Woodcock; Lysander Spooner; Professor Miranda Green; Pierre Proudhon; Professors Pierpaoli and Regelson; David Anderson; The Oxford English Dictionary and an old associate Mr. C. Murray Hall M.A. (Lecturer in Barbarian Cultures: Sussex University).
TT: How did you begin research into your family history? At what point in your life did you become aware of “the Dragon legacy” in your family? Is it something you grew up with?
NDV: From the age of seven onwards my father told me about our ancestry, an ancestry steeped in royal blood and most significantly of all in what is termed Royal Witchcraft, which is a major, ancient, draconian, druidic facet continuing within the later history of the Dragon tradition and within the Vere family.
My father educated me about our particular origins in the royal and noble Blackwood family of Lanark, Scotland. This dynasty sired the most significant practitioner of the Dragon tradition in his time: Major Thomas Weir of Vere of Edinburgh, my 11th great grandfather.
As a witch lord and the prince consort to the elven queen of the Lallan, Thomas performed the ancient Gaelic rites of the sacred kingship of Epona, and consequently founded this rite of kingship within my lineage. So I received the tradition at an early age from my father and he received it from his father, and so on.
TT: Your formal title is “Prince Nicholas de Vere.” What does this title imply?
NDV: To answer your question I have pasted-in an excerpt from the ‘Duchy of Angiers’ genealogical table charting the ancient, royal descent of the Dragon House of Vere which, as you know, will shortly be published with a full compliment of supporting historical and contemporary academic sources.
” The Royal House of Vere — The Senior Angevin House of the original ‘Princes and Counts of Anjou’ — are latterly of Breton and Flemish extraction and the former senior, Scottish Branch; Hope-Vere of Blackwood, traditionally observed the Flemish law of Noblesse Uterine, and matrilinear and family inheritance in accordance with noble Scottish family law, which contemporarily and historically supports blood descent.
The titles of Princeps Draconis and Prince de Vere, currently held by Nicholas de Vere, are acknowledged as foreign titles in confidential files held by the British Government’s Department of Internal Affairs: ‘The Home Office’ and are registered with them as ‘Official Observations’. The right of fons honorum held by Nicholas de Vere is also acknowledged by Her Majesty’s government. These titles are recognised by the most senior branches of the House of Vere.
Nicholas de Vere, though accepting the existence of both with some considerable qualification, does not claim to be either a member of the contemporary British royal household or of its peerage in any sense, and does not claim any status or rank suggestive of such or appertaining thereunto. The Vere princedoms are not modern, socially derived titles; either assumed or bestowed, for or by, political expediency.
The princedoms of Vere are ancient cultural manifestations of genetic qualities carried in the historical Elven Blood Royal. Established in Angiers, France, in 740 a.d. as an Imperial and Royal House arising from far older sacral-regal, Pictish, Scythian Vere origins rooted in antiquity, the House of Vere is academically recorded in a single name and in an unbroken line for over one thousand three hundred years, and consequently is one of the oldest surviving royal dynasties in Europe .”
So I trace my lineage back in an unbroken bloodline to the imperial prince Milo de Vere Count of Anjou in 740 A.D., son of Princess Milouziana of the Scythians. She was recorded throughout France as being the Elven, Dragon Princess of the Scottish Picts, and her Grandson Milo II derived his Merovingian descent through his father’s marital alliance with the imperial house of Charlene.
Later in history we picked up numerous other lines of Merovingian descent and the attitude in the house of Vere today, both here and in Ireland, reflects that of the Merovingians themselves where inheritance and blood descent is concerned.
Concerning my maternal lineage: my mother is descended from the ancient Collison Jarls of Norfolk, and is the third cousin of the head of the House of Vere. We are a very tightly knit family. The head of the House himself is of Royal Collison descent and this matrilinear Collison extraction also stems from the ancient House of Vere and Princess Milouziana of the Scythians. We are Veres on all sides of the family.
The overall head of the House of Vere today is the Prince Mhaior. By Papal Investiture and by inheritance from the House of the royal O’Brien descendants of King Brian Boru of Tara, the Prince Mhaior is himself an Archduke — not an insignificant Irish earl, as some totally ill-informed malcontent once triumphantly proclaimed in a ridiculous, failed attempt at an expose of me.
The Head of the House, formally addresses me as “the Dragon Prince” of the House of Vere.
TT: Who are the “Dragons” that you write about in your book?
NDV: In brief the recorded Dragon lineage starts with the Annunaki and descends through the proto-Scythians, the Sumerians in one branch and the early Egyptians in another; the Phoenicians, the Mittani, back to the Scythians again through marital alliance, along to the “Tuatha de Danaan” and the Fir Bolg; down through their Arch-Druidic, Priest-Princely families to the Royal Picts of Scotland and the high kings of the Horse Lords of Dal Riada; through to the Elven dynasty of Pendragon and Avallon del Acqs, and down to a few pure bred families today.
TT: Were the Dragons originally a separate species from what we would call “human”?
NDV: Dragon tradition related to all the current genetic and historical evidence says yes they were. Both relatively recent and ancient accounts of Dragons or Elves going back to the Annunaki speak of them as having clearly distinct physical attributes, and these attributes are inherited from a species that scientists now assert preceded the human genetic bottleneck by about thirty thousand years. These attributes are not human in the accepted sense. Whether this ancient race was hybridised with another before history is anybody’s guess but their later hybridisation to produce the Elven God-Kings and Ring Lords: (the King Tribe), is clearly recorded in the Cylinder Rolls.
TT: Are these Dragons the same as the “Nephilim” of the Bible or the “Watchers” of The Book of Enoch?
NDV: The Nephilim and the Watchers are of the Dragon race, yes.
TT: Were the gods of ancient cultures (Greece, India, Sumeria, etc.) Dragons?
NDV: These pantheons are derived from one another so again the answer in simplistic terms is yes.
TT: What kind of civilization did the Dragons reign over? Would you say that it was the same as the Atlantean or antediluvian civilization?
NDV: The Platonic Atlantis theory is preceded by a much older tradition relating to the “Ogdoad.” The Ogdoad, sacred to Jesus himself, were the eight great Gods who raked the Sacred Mountain — “Atlantis” — after the original Flood. This Flood occurred in the Black Sea and the Sacred Mountain, so inundated, was believed to be the Pontus Euxine. Apparently the Ogdoad failed in their attempt to bring fertility back to the Holy Place and abandoned it for a life wandering the planet. This is probably why the legend of the Flood spread and can be found in most cultures.
The Ogdoad turn up in Chinese myth, in early Egyptian religious texts, and even in much later Viking legend, where the gods of the Aesir were said to have abandoned the Sacred Mountain after the Flood. From the Ogdoad, who were the first Dragon god-kings of ancient proto-Scythia, we obtain the gods of the Anunnaki, and those later pantheons that derived from them. It is not to be doubted that after the Flood the children of the Anunnaki had established incredible civilisations in their time, so I suppose you could say that the cultures of the Sumerians (whose language, termed “proto-Sumerian,” originated in Transylvania), the Egyptians and even the early settlers in northern Europe stemmed from and reflect an antediluvian prototype, a much older pre-Flood “Golden Age” presided over by the ancient Dragon god-kings and goddess-queens. The mistake would be to put the Atlantean period too far back in time and to locate Atlantis where Plato did. Scientists have proved the Biblical Flood to be in the Black Sea and this region is where most of the Titanic and Olympian sagas, associated with the Dawn of the Gods, unfold.
TT: Is Dragon blood the true source of divine right kingship, in your opinion? Are the Dragons the rightful rulers of the world’s governments?
NDV: Anciently Dragon blood, the blood of the gods is the true source of divine right kingship. To say that Dragons are the rightful rulers of the world’s governments today might raise some contention. Perhaps it would be more realistic to suggest that they may well be the rightful rulers of the world’s governments in the future.
TT: There is a great deal written in your book about Cain. What is his role in the history of the Dragon bloodline?
NDV: Cain was the scion of the gods, not of Adam. He was bred to be the progenitor of the race of god-kings over man. In terms of the descent of the later Dragons, he is the father of the race.
TT: What about Isis/Venus? What is her role?
NDV: The pantheons have overlapped but essentially Isis, in her Egyptian form, belongs to their agricultural-astronomical metaphor, though in her archaic form she originates from the Anunnaki dynasty. The more recent manifestation of Venus is a process belonging essentially to the later Grail ethos. Briefly put, Venus is the Falling Star — Lucifer — and in short, that star in its fall from Heaven to Earth symbolizes, microcosmically, the descent of sacred essences from the brain of the Dragon priestess to her womb, which organ is the physical, biological reality behind the symbol of the Holy Grail, the cauldron of plenty and so forth.
To elucidate, Kabbalistically and Hermetically, we have the image of the divine female — Sophia — though she has many other names, on both the cosmic and human level. The Cosmos was thought to replicate the perfect human form on the universal scale.
Macrocosmically — Above — the heavens or stars are represented by Kether, the head of the figure. From Kether the Cubic Stone in the form of Lucifer, the divine inspiration, falls to Malkuth the Earth, the birth cannal of the Cosmic being.
Microcosmically — Below — Sophia is embodied in the Dragon female and her head rests in Kether, her womb lies in Yesod and her birth canal lies in Malkuth. Microcosmically the process of the descent of divine inspiration from the heavens to the Earth is repeated therefore in the descent of divine, inspiring essences from Kether to Malkuth in the female form.
The male Kabbalistic counterpart on both the cosmic and human level was Adam Kadmon, the perfect combination of the mortal and the divine, through whom holy wisdom was imparted and within whom Lucifer — the serpent or lightning bolt of that divine inspiration — descended from Kether, which was the divine spirit residing within the head, to Tiphareth the mortal soul of man resting within the heart and thence, through holy prophecy, to the inhabitants of the world sphere.
In Kabbalistic tracts the Cosmic or universal Christ was Tiphareth, which was the male counterpart of the Cubic Stone. In mystical Christian terms Jesus Christ, as the Tiphareth, was both the manifestation and receptacle of transcendent Luciferian inspiration.
Indeed, in the biblical Revelation of St. John, Jesus is called “The bright son of the morning” which is Lucifer or Venus, the Falling Star. He is also referred to biblically as the second Adam, the son of God, and reflecting this Christ was viewed in the Kabbala as Adam Kadmon, the divine human being. As Lucifer, in more recent orthodox Christian terms of reference, by a curious twist of logic he consequently embodies both Christ and Anti-Christ, generation and destruction, Ormuzd and Ahriman, light and darkness. It is not to be marvelled at therefore, that the Anti-Christ of the latter days will arise from the very bloodline of Christ himself.
In summary, in some Gnostic dualist traditions Jesus was a bipartite being identified as the male counterpart of the Cubic Stone and the vessel of God’s wisdom on Earth. Because of this, from antiquity up to the present day, his myth has become conjoined with that of the Holy Grail. However both his divine symbolic origins and sacred attributes, and his bloodline — which embodied those sacred attributes — are far older and stem all the way back to the Anunnaki, to both Enlil and Enki, thus to “God” and the “Devil.”
For this reason, the witches of medieval Europe honoured him as the “antecessor” (“the ancestor”) and as “Christ son Dei,” the dual god of light and dark, good and evil, the scion of both God and Satan. In a classical reversal of the biblical story and as a continuation of the earlier Gnostic theme they considered Jehovah the ultimate god of evil, the demiurge. St. Columba called Jesus “Mo Drui, Mac Dei” — “My Druid, Son of God.” In Gaelic, “druid” means “witch,” and “witchcraft” is the lineal descendant of Druidism. This view of Christ is supported in the ancient Christian “Letter to Ceretius.”
TT: When you refer metaphorically to “the Dragon,” what exactly are you referring to?
“The Dragon” is a term I use generally to mean the dragon archetype resting within the Dragon blood and passed on through the genes. It is the conduit through which flow the memories of the wisdom and experience of the Dragons who have gone before. The word “dragon” is derived from the Greek “edrakon,” which is an aorist of the word “derkesthai,” which means “to see clearly”. “The Dragon” therefore is the inherited Dragon archetype and that archetype is the conduit of clear sight through which racial knowledge flows. Clear sight also and principally refers to transcendent consciousness.
TT: What percentage of the world’s populace would you say possesses this Dragon blood? Is it predominately found in certain types of people? How can you tell a Dragon from other types of people?
NDV: Roughly ten percent of Europeans have Dragon blood, and stem from families whose physical attributes clearly point to a genetic inheritance over 100,000 years old. This figure is calculated from research deriving from studies by Oxford University and matched to historical accounts.
TT: How did the Dragon race begin, and how did they become a separate race from the rest of humanity?
NDV: They didn’t originate from outer space, that’s for sure. A principal element of the Dragon genome originated in the vast forests of central Europe, and cut off from other species, they developed as a distinct race. By the time of the Anunnaki they had been hybridised to form the ancestors of the later Elves or Dragon kings and queens.
TT: When we first met you told me about a research project that some university was doing to try and identify “Dragon genes” in people. What exactly is this project, and is it still going on today?
NDV: To answer this question I will again paste an excerpt of “The Duchy of Angiers” table here and develop the idea afterwards.
” The relationship between the Prince Mhaior who, by Normanised descent, is the Head of the Irish House of Vere and Nicholas de Vere; who — by Gaelic blood descent — is Chief of the Tyrone Kildress Branch is that of 4th and 14th cousins. Both share various identical genes. Found in only 3% and 6% of the clinical samples tested in Britain, Nicholas de Vere and the Head of the House in Eire share two sets of rare genes each. The Prince Mhaior is of Royal Collison extraction and Nicholas de Vere has an extra set of these genes from the matrilineal descent which also supports the Royal Collison descent from Norfolk in his own lineage and echoes the selective and exclusive royal and noble marital alliances which have continued throughout the history of the House of Vere.
The House of Weir and Vere originally commissioned genetic tests to be undertaken to confirm, amongst other things, the precise degree of relationship between their respective lines, and in order to clarify anomalies in genealogy that inevitably creep into the records as the mists of time occlude the past. This was achieved successfully, and some records were amended to reflect genetic findings both in Nicholas’ lineage and that of another of his Vere cousins in Ireland, confirming that Nicholas’ descent is one of the senior bloodlines of the House of Vere.
However, the genetic makeup of the House of Vere manifesting generation after generation proved to be so unusual that, beyond the remit of the original commission by the family, the Department of Haemogenetics at London University took the Veres on as a special study case. At this particular stage of the research a Conference Presentation Document has been submitted prior to the delivery of a Medical Paper at a forthcoming Genetics Symposium in the United States, by an eminent professor in the department who is an internationally recognised pioneer in genetics. Further racial and mitochondrial studies of the Vere family are planned by the department “.
Basically the Veres were found to have more genes than ordinary people. The family research continues.
As for dragon genes, these were identified from research deriving from both London University and The University of Oxford. This aspect of the project has been completed. There are two main types of genes which go to make up a contemporary Dragon.
TT: Did dragons possess “magical” powers? If so, do their descendants possess them as well?
NDV: It depends what you mean by “magical.” The greatest magic of all is to be able to naturally still one’s mind to the point where one sees that “all acts are magical acts.” As a natural course of events stemming from transcendent perception, certain facilities are within the grasp of Dragons. These abilities, though they vary, are hereditary.
TT: Your former co-author Laurence Gardner writes a lot about “starfire” and the power of pineal secretions, which are portrayed as being analogous to the Elixir of Life or Philosopher’s Stone, bestowing increased brain capacity, magical ability, and prolonged life upon he who consumes it. These are elements that he clearly picked up from your research. In your writing, you claim that people of “Dragon blood” are the only ones bio-chemically equipped to produce these substances in their own bodies at a high enough level to yield results. But Gardner has written much about this so-called “monatomic gold,” and seems to think that this is a synthetic substitute for “starfire” which ordinary people can consume to become Dragons themselves. Do you know anything about this substance? What is your comment on Mr. Gardner’s theories?
NDV: Firstly the physical, hormonal elements of Starfire are only one side of the story, and in my book I clearly state that the whole process contains several other “psycho-somatic” elements, not least that pertaining to relationship.
As for being able to pop a pill to become a Dragon, this kind of stupid New Age attitude stems from the ridiculous, totally indefensible greed-driven free market assertion that anyone can become anything they choose, and the totally unfounded PC notion that everyone is equal.
This kind of pathetic liberalism, born as a reaction to the socially inculcated victim mentality, should be abhorred by all rational beings, and so my attitude towards the concept of monatomic gold as a great social leveler and equalizer is one of contempt.
However, you don’t make lots of money by telling the bulk of your readership that they are genetically excluded from a process they cannot experience or understand; you sell New Age drivel by telling the ingenuous that they can all assume any role they like, and adopt any trendy “lifestyle” choice that whim and deceitful advertising dictates. As you know, I don’t write to make money, so I don’t care who I offend with the truth. Can I pop a pill to turn me into a black African Masai warrior? No. Is there a powder I can take to change me into a woman? Of course not. I don’t see the need for monatomic gold myself. “Starfire” and the Seraphic relationship worked perfectly well for me, and in any case you are either genetically a Dragon or you are not, and no amount of monatomic gold is going to change your genetic makeup.
TT: What was the original meaning and purpose of vampirism?
NDV: Vampire stems from the word “vber” or “uber,” and means “witch.” It originates in Anatolia; the location of the seven yearly Druidic gatherings: the Nemetons. “Witch” in Gaelic is “Druidhe,” or “druid.” In practical terms and suggested by the term “uber” itself, a Scythian druid was an overlord, and so originally a vampire was an overlord, and hence a Dragon.
The purpose of vampirism depends on the type of vampirism practiced. Starfire was the purpose of “royal” or druidic vampirism in the ancient Scythian families, and in Scythian “warrior” vampirism drinking the blood of fallen brothers in battle was intended to take their essence and bravery into the recipient. The blood of vanquished foes was also drunk. In both cases this also had the advantage of topping up one’s adrenaline and testosterone levels in the heat of conflict. The folklore image of the vampire in Europe stems from this historical root. Vampirism was an integral part of Scythian/Dragon life.
TT: What are the meanings of the terms:
Are these all names for essentially the same thing, according to your theory?
NDV: Yes, these terms are all associated with the same being and stem from the Dragon genome.
Fairy = Fate, and by extension a controller of the fate of man and hence an overlord. In all accounts of fairies they are of royal blood or origin.
Pixie = “Pict Sidhe” or “Sithe,” after the Scythian/Dragon habit of painting or tattooing tribal markings onto the body.
Elf = “White or Shining One,” and refers to the countenance of Dragons as witnessed by contemporary observers.
Gnome = “Wise one”; the word “gnome” derives from the Greek root “gno,” from whence we obtain the word “gnosis,” meaning mystical wisdom. A Gnome was a member therefore of the race of Gnomes or Wise Ones and this term is synonymous with “Aryan”; which means “scion of the wise or noble race.” The word “noble” also stems from the same root word as “gnome”: “Gno.” From thence we see that a gnome was a Dragon.
Druid = Man or woman of the Tree, specifically the Tree of Life — the Scythian Priestess — down whom filters the essences of the brain into the Grail receptacle of the womb.
Aryan = Scion of the wise or noble race, see above; another term for the members of the king tribe where “king,” from the Gothic “Kuningjam,” means “scion of the noble (wise and hence Aryan) race.”
Pharisee = In English folklore a “farisee” or “fairy.” In Hebrew it stems from “Parush,” meaning “one who is set aside,” and hence above others.
TT: How does the symbolism of Baphomet fit in with your theory?
NDV: Baphomet can be appreciated on several levels depending on your point of view. To the Church, Baphomet was the Devil and in a sense it is; inasmuch as the goat-headed effigy represents, on one level, Enki; who was later to appear as Shaitan. Enki was known as “the Ram of the Shimmering Waters,” and was the prototype of the Golden Fleece. It appears that Baphomet is a later variation on the same theme. From Enki and his partner Lilith we obtain both Capricorn, the Goat of the Water; and Leviathan. In this sense it can be appreciated as a glyph pointing to the origins of the Dragon dynasty.
To compound this view, on occasion the Baphomet appears with the wings of an angel, and the angel clearly associates the Baphomet — as the badge and progenitor of the Dragon race — with the biblical “sons of God,” the Elohim.
On the alchemical level — in Eliphas Levi’s depiction — we have the negation of the gender polarities and individuation within the Seraphic Relationship, a dynamic where, as Arthur Machin, put it “the two Dragons devour each other and another is born; a Phoenix, a Star of Wonder.” In Levi’s glyph this process is encapsulated in the words “solve” and “coagula.” The upshot of all this is the psychological death of the “Old Man” of the unregenerate ego and the re-emergence in “the New Man” of transcendent perception and “union with Godhead.” Associated with this we have Baphomet or, as some put it, “Father Mithras.”
As Mithras, Baphomet represents the killing of the ‘world bull’ of unregenerate perception, from which sacrifice flows the fertility of the freed consciousness. Additionally, Mithras is the balancing medium between the extreme forces of generation and destruction — and therefore represents cosmic balance in the universe and personal detachment in the individual. Here we touch upon the Hermetic doctrine of “As above, so below.” What happens in the cosmos takes place also in man.
In this vein we can see that the Baphomet symbolizes the Beast 666 — man as God — uniting the Earthly nature of man represented as the goat; and the divine element of man as symbolized by the angel’s wings. In this glyph we see that the divine is to be found in base nature and base nature is to be found in the divine. The Kabbalists put it as “Kether in Malkuth, and Malkuth in Kether.”
In practical terms it means that Heaven is on Earth and Earth is in Heaven and in reality there is no “path” to tread, no “system” of so-called enlightenment to follow, because it is all here now. Kill the “world bull” of fear and greed; still the mind and the timeless, the eternal, the heavenly becomes apparent here and now on Earth, not in some ethereal “life after death” state to come.
Baphomet, as the legendary head of the Templars, has an earlier correlation in the story of the detached head of the Arch-Druid Bran the Blessed which was also a font of wisdom and fertility. The close association of the Head of Wisdom — the Baphomet — with the Grail is demonstrated in the depiction of the Templar Skull and Cross Bones; the original “Joli Rouges” or “Jolly Roger.” Again this has a Hermetic meaning inasmuch as what is above (in the head) is also below (in the womb, or “Grail”). The head as a Grail symbol derives spiritually from the Celtic belief that the divine soul resided within the head. The severed head — the skull — resting on the crossed bones of the thighs near the pudenda denotes that the head and the womb were both the receptacles of the divine, and were therefore synonymous as symbols of the Holy Grail.
TT: Is the Dragon bloodline a Satanic or Luciferian bloodline?
NDV: Yes is the honest and simple answer.
TT: If a person believes that they have the Dragon gene, and they want to start developing the powers inherent in their blood, what course would you suggest they follow?
NDV: There isn’t one gene, there are two main types which must be found together, and the best course of action, for those who want to be certain of their heritage at the outset, would be to contact a reputable commercial genetic laboratory and find out for sure.
Developing powers for their own sake isn’t magic, it’s greed, and greed and ambition are the destroyers of transcendent Dragon perception. Power flows naturally for those whose vision is clear, and clear perception will determine that those powers are used with detachment. Jesus said “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you.” The fact of the matter is that to Dragons, Dragon magic is simple and straightforward and fundamentally it relies in discovering simplicity and stillness within the self.
If the reader believes they are of the Dragon Blood and they wish to explore the transcendent concept, in lieu of a lengthy explanation for which there isn’t space within the confines of this interview, I would recommend a little book entitled The First and Last Freedom, written by Jiddu Krishnamurti.
TT: What is the history of the Dragon Court of which you are the sovereign head? Did you inherit this title, and if so, who from?
NDV: The Imperial and Royal Dragon Court appears repeatedly throughout the history of my family. It is the physical, cultural manifestation of the Dragon spirit inherent within the Vere Dragon blood, reaching back long before the time of Christ.
Briefly, to give a few examples, in more recent times it was the Royal Court of the Dragon Princess Milouziana from whom we are descended in numerous lines, and later it was the fairy Court of Alberic de Vere, the legendary Oberon.
Immediately following Alberic it was the Court of his son, Robert de Vere earl of Huntingdon, who was the historical Robin Hood; the elven, sacral priest-king of the witches. Later the Dragon Court was manifest in the “Thirteen Covens of Mid-Lothian,” and in the cabal of Lady Somerville, the witch-mother of Thomas of Edinburgh. Thomas was the grandson of Sir William Vere of Stonebyres and the elvin, Dragon priest-king of the Thirteen Covens.
Sir William was the son of James, 7th Baron Blackwood. Lady Jane Somerville’s heraldic family badge is recorded as the fiery dragon surmounting the pentacle, denoting Dragon blood in the House of the Somerville earls.
Notably in our family the Dragon Court is also derived from the Court of the Pendragon Kings whose lineage we inherit through numerous marital alliances with our close cousins the Dukes of Hamilton, whose estates bordered our own in Lanarkshire. The Hamiltons were the heirs presumptive to the throne of Scotland.
Lateral inheritance from the extinct cadet cousin branch of the Vere earls of Oxford brings to the contemporary Court, via the 11th earl Richard de Vere, the degree of Societas Draconis — latterly misnamed “Sarkany Rend” — a membership bestowed upon him, it is believed academically, during his investiture into the Prince’s Degree of the Order of the Garter, along with the Emperor Sigismund of Luxembourg, at St. George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle.
The heraldry of the family prior to Richard’s investiture into Societas Draconis already included the ancient Dragon motifs on both the paternal and maternal sides of the family, denoting pure Dragon blood in both descents, and reflecting the continuing presence of the Dragon Court in the family since the time of Princess Milouziana of the Scythians.
The contemporary Dragon Court is furthermore a combination of what Aleister Crowley would term several “currents,” of which the major external one to the family proper was bestowed via the Black Country Covenant of the Baphometic Order of the Cubic Stone, who trace their origins back to the Knights Templars. This was given in recognition of my family’s hereditary involvement in Royal Witchcraft and the historical Dragon tradition. Other external currents derive from the Knighthood of the Plantagenet Clan Donnachaid, Dragon cousins to the House of Vere, and laterally from Dr John Dee’s “School of Night,” of which Edward de Vere, the seventeenth earl of Oxford, was a prominent member. Edward also performed the rites of Dragon kingship in the family, specifically the rite of the kingship of the Calle Daouine.
Down the centuries the Royal Dragon Court is carried continuously in the Vere Dragon Blood.
It would be correct to say I inherited the Dragon Court by virtue of being a senior blood descendant of the House of Vere, and I am recognized as a Dragon sovereign by the other senior members of the family. Academic sources and references pertaining to these Dragon descents will be published with the book.
TT: How can one become a member of the Dragon Court, and once a member, what does one do? What is the current function of the Dragon Court?
NDV: Today the Court consists of participating family members here and in Ireland. In addition to these, we have emeritus officers whose functions are invaluable to the running of the Court.
One of the current, “outer” functions of the Dragon Court is as the custodian of the Dragon tradition within the Vere family, which includes the continuing study of the history and genealogy of its various branches, and the amendment of records as fresh knowledge comes to light.
Membership of the Dragon Court is given rarely. We are not a joining club, nor do we operate for monetary gain in any sense. As time passes the Dragon Ethos demands that the Dragon Court change and develop according to expediency. In the future we may well expand the membership of the Court to take in new Dragon members or to expand the number of emeritus officers.
TT: Many people have ascribed to you a radical political agenda, and say that you are trying to use your genealogy as a springboard for a bid for the throne of England, and other such nonsense. What is your response to these claims?
NDV: I cannot take such assertions seriously. The educated reader will already know that the House of Vere fielded over twenty prominent earls in an unbroken line over 561 years of British history. The House of Vere was credited with being the senior bloodline of England, both by its contemporaries and by later historians, and the Veres acted for centuries as Great Chamberlains to the various royal dynasties that came and went over time. As Great Chamberlains they were the closest advisors to the monarchs and were therefore the major influence or power behind the British throne.
In all this time the family never considered it expedient to stoop to pick up the Crown, as the House of Vere was above such considerations. It is apparent, given the family’s pre-eminently powerful and influential historical position within British society, that the English monarchy was a trivia beneath the dignity and ambition of the House. I see no reason to change that opinion today, so as you say, the notion that I would demean myself by making a bid for the throne is utter nonsense. We have standards to maintain in this family.
In any event the monarchical system in Britain is, to the greatest extent, impotent, and so if one wanted real political power, the last place one would find it would be on the throne of England.
I quote as follows:
“Vere-de-Vere stalked into the English vernacular as a playful term meaning the grandest, proudest, most historic, indisputably aristocratic and absolutely creme de la creme of Anglo-Norman antiquity.
In fiction the expression is used for characters of, or assuming, unquestionable ancient lineage — and with good cause.
In the Middle Ages, owing to plagues and battlefield mortality, the average noble dynasty in England lasted not more than three generations. The de Veres, however, managed to maintain a line of twenty earls of Oxford over 561 years.
Lord Thomas Macaulay, Victorian historian supreme calls this family:
‘The longest and most illustrious line of nobles that England has seen……….the noblest House in Europe.’”
— Verily Anderson, The Veres of Castle Hedingham.
“The noblest subject in England, and indeed, as Englishmen loved to say, the noblest subject in Europe, was Aubrey de Vere who derived his title through an uninterrupted male descent, from a time when the families of Howard and Seymour were still obscure, when the Nevills and Percys enjoyed only a provincial celebrity, and when even the great name of Plantagenet had not yet been heard in England.
One chief of the house of de Vere had held high command at Hastings; another had marched, with Godfrey and Tancred, over heaps of slaughtered Moslems, to the sepulchre of Christ. The first Earl of Oxford had been minister of Henry Beaucler. The third earl had been conspicuous among the lords who extorted the great Charter from John. The seventh earl had fought bravely at Cressy and Poictiers. The thirteenth earl had, through many vicissitudes of fortune, been the chief of the party of the Red Rose, and had led the van on the decisive day of Bosworth. The seventeenth earl had shone at the court of Elizabeth I, and had won for himself an honourable place among the early masters of English poetry…”
— Baron Thomas Babbington Macaulay, Lord Macaulay of Rothley Temple (1857).
We have no need for thrones or crowns to remind us of who we are.
TT: Are you a monarchist?
NDV: By definition Stalin was a “monarch,” as were all the presidents of the United States. By such a definition I cannot be said to be a monarchist per se. I am only a royalist with the greatest of qualifications because not all who contemporarily claim to be royal or those who have occupied the positions of royalty in history have actually been of royal blood.
TT: How do you feel about the current British monarchy?
NDV: I have no feelings about them one way or another. They have a tendency to frighten the hell out of British wildlife during the hunting season but in other respects they seem harmless enough, so I see no real reason not to leave them where they are. What would you replace them with anyway? President Blair? What a scary thought.
TT: There are a lot of wild theories being bandied about on the internet regarding the agenda of the Dragon Court. New World Order: The Movie regards the Dragon Court as part of an Illuminati conspiracy involving Satanism and Nazism. Heeding Bible Prophecy seems to proclaim nothing less than that the scion of the Devil — the Anti-Christ himself — will emerge from the ranks of the Dragon Court. David Icke and Arizona Wilder claim that your former co-author (and former Dragon Court member), Laurence Gardner, shape-shifted into a reptile and sacrificed babies in an underground military base at Montauk, New York. How close are these claims to the truth? What sinister activities are you hiding, Mr. de Vere?
NDV: People think that the Anti-Christ will emerge from the ranks of the Dragon Court? How intuitive of them.
My views on Nazism are well known. Nazism was a peasant movement populated by the worst in German peasant scum. Its “Aryan” philosophy and aspirations were a complete joke, and its blind devotion to nationalistic jingoism was the height of psychological blindness and wishful thinking. You can’t make genetic Aryans — a race of kings — out of a nation of genetic turnip-peasants.
As for Satanism, if we mean adherence to Satan as some externalised deity separate from the Dragon blood and the object of religious devotion, such is an illogical nonsense. Originally the Satans in Biblical terms were nothing more than Circuit Prosecutors within the Jewish Theocratic system. Who in their right mind would worship lawyers? I wish people would study the facts. It would save so much time and energy.
David Icke, dear, oh dear, oh dear. David once announced on his website that Laurence Gardner and his cronies performed blood-drinking rituals at his “Columba House.” Before uttering this ridiculous libel David should have contacted the Post Office and checked as to where “Columba House” was actually situated. If he had have done the Post Office would quite happily have told him that “Columba House” was in fact a six inch by twelve inch Post Office Box at the local Post Office Branch in Tiverton, Devon. Exactly how many shape-shifting reptilian vampires and their victims can you get into a standard British Post Office Box?
Having all shape-shifted into reptilian vampires, David Icke would then have us believe that they all shrunk to the size of Minnie Mouse and got a postal worker to put them in the box. If the reader thinks this is possible or even probable, and I am sure that some who stay glued to the Internet all day will, then it is also entirely possible that the reader will believe that Laurence Gardner sacrificed babies at Montauk.
David Icke is concocting all this out of his cynical, fiscally motivated imagination and flogging it to a willing audience who, frighteningly enough, actually swallow it whole.
What sinister activities am I hiding? The internal activities of the Court are confidential.
TT: What are your personal beliefs regarding God, spirituality, and religion?
NDV: “Beliefs” regarding God and spirituality create religions, and religions create division and fear, within the individual and consequently within society as a whole. Religion is a crutch for the power hungry, the lazy, the weak minded and the unregenerate. Religions happen when people don’t get the point of the message and blindly worship the message and the messenger, instead of grasping the gnosis inherent within the words that the message conveys.
TT: Who, in your opinion, was the Judeo-Christian god Jehovah? Do you believe that there is any historical basis behind the symbolic notion of Jehovah’s conflict with Satan?
NDV: The Jews got the main tenets of their religion from the Babylonians during the exile. Therefore one can say that although the later Jehovah is a composite, his main attributes can be traced back to the god Enlil, and it was Enlil who started a war with his step-brother Enki concerning their individual number-ranking and seniority of position within the Anunnaki dynasty. So in general terms we can say that the conflict between Jehovah and Satan originated in a petty family squabble.
TT: What is your opinion of Christ and his ministry?
NDV: A pretty good one.
TT: What is your opinion of the Wiccan and New Age movements?
NDV: Again my views of the Wiccan and New Age movements are also well known. Wicca, the so-called “Old Religion” is no more than sixty years old and the New Age movement is nothing more than a baseless, cynical marketing ploy geared towards extracting money from the gullible.
TT: How do you feel about the sudden surge of interest in the “Grail bloodline” following the publication of The Da Vinci Code? Do you think that the popularization of the idea is dangerous?
NDV: Some people, the minority, will maintain their interest and study the subject further, whilst the bulk of readers will treat the book as a novel experience and pass on to other subjects, once their curiosity has been satisfied. This happens with every new publication. The only inherent danger would be to the subject itself, once the money-vampires of the New Age get hold of it and try opening weekend workshops in “How to become a member of the Grail Bloodline.” It would then get promoted and marketed as a “lifestyle choice” open to all. Once such familiarity has bred the inevitable public contempt, the subject may well be rendered valueless to the new enquirer.
In this vein I note with derision that a group of uneducated homosexual activists in Denver, Colorado called the “Radical Faeries”, a “fast-growing circle of energetic earth-centered Gay men who meet for community,” have opened up courses in “Faerie Arts and Craft-A-Rama,” complete with coffee mornings. Thank you for passing their information sheet on to me. I read half of it and promptly threw it in the trash can. Truly these days everything is for sale and as a commodity, the sacred becomes profane.
TT: What is the one most important thing you want people to take away after reading The Dragon Legacy?
Firstly, one of the central themes of the book is transcendent consciousness. I would like to feel that the reader may derive some interest in this concept from reading The Dragon Legacy and will pursue the subject further.
Secondly, the Dragon families have been with us for millennia and, in the course of time, their innate and rightful destiny will cause them to rise again.